But can you abort apes?

New rights for apes in Spain . . .

The Spanish Parliament’s move to grant rights previously reserved for human beings to chimpanzees and other apes is a victory for those seeking to minimize the uniqueness of humanity, a bioethics specialist says.

The Great Apes Project (GAP) is the brainchild of philosophers Peter Singer, a controversial ethics professor at Princeton University, and Paola Cavalieri, who founded it in 1993, Reuters reported.

Peter Singer is wildly pro-abortion. He, like other pro-legalized abortionists, realizes the folly of trying to say that the unborn aren’t human (those pesky 4-D ultrasounds and embryology textbooks teaching that life begins at conception get in the way of that), but they use philosphical “personhood” arguments to support their worldview. They claim that if humans don’t have self-awareness or some such things that they are fair game for abortion.

The personhood argument is demonstrably false, but there is one oddly positive element to it.  Singer and some others take the personhood argument to its logical conclusion and use it to support infanticide as well, such as the right to kill disabled babies.  A recent commenter on this blog insisted that parents should be able to destory infants up to about 18 months.  Most pro-aborts (other than Barack Obama) usually draw the line at birth, but that isn’t consistent with their personhood rationale.

So, these questions arise: Where do unborn humans and apes and born humans and apes allegedly without consciousness fit in the chain? Can you have ape abortions? Can you have ape infanticide?  Is a 2 yr. old ape worthy of more protection than a 1 yr. old human?

Here’s a terrific perspective from Life Under the Blue Sky:

You know, there is a great irony in all this. Here’s what I think. I don’t recall reading anywhere, in the vast annals of scientific literature, that the Great Ape ’societies’ and ‘cultures’ have developed medical facilities where female apes can go to get clean, sometimes free, discreet, safe abortions on demand, up to and including partial-birth abortions as late as 5 months into the pregnancy. I have read nowhere in any of these books about the Great Apes debating before a supreme court over whether or not it should be legal to kill another ape just because it is unborn. I haven’t read anywhere, in any scientific journal, that the great apes had developed a systematic, legal, mechanized manner by which they might efficiently and effectively destroy the lives of other apes just because they were unborn. And yet the same humans who have developed and done such things are now going to extend the courtesy of the ‘right to life’ to apes?!? Forgive me if I don’t put too much stock in the survival of the great apes. 

26 Responses

  1. I’ll start this show…

    Q: Where do unborn humans and apes and born humans and apes allegedly without consciousness fit in the chain?
    A: Why are we talking about apes?

    Q: Can you have ape abortions?
    A: Are there any Ape doctors to perform them? What kind of silly question is that?

    Q: Can you have ape infanticide?
    A: Apes do what they will with their offspring. Who’s gonna stop them? Not me.

    Q: Is a 2 yr. old ape worthy of more protection than a 1 yr. old human?
    A: Human says “no.” Ape says “Ooooo” (yes).

    All sillyness aside, why ARE we talking about apes? This Peter Singer sounds very whacked.

  2. As he moves towards the center for the general election, Obama has softened his view on abortion by saying that mental health was probably not a good reason. He’s still far to the left, but he is moving.

    Whether he will stay that way or continue the trend is another subject.

  3. Singer is sick.

  4. I’ve talked about Singer in my blog before, too. (I’d reference it if I could find it.) And it’s not just Spain who wants to give monkeys human rights — New Zealand already did it.

    Singer is perhaps the most consistent humanistic atheist I’ve heard. If we are just sacks of biochemistry evolved from some quagmire somewhere, then we have no more value than bacteria. Actually makes sense … if the premise is true. And it won’t be long before more think like him.

    Yesterday in our local news there was a headline, “Family comes home to find their family pet murdered.” Ummm, “murdered”? That’s a legal term reserved for killing people. “Yeah,” someone is bound to shout, “dogs are people, too, you know!” Oh, yeah, it’s coming to a neighborhood near you.

  5. You have to know precisely what Singer actually said, at least, before you can refute his argument. Here’s the founding document of The Great Ape Project:

    _The Great Ape Project: Equality Beyond Humanity_
    by Paola Cavalieri, Peter Singer
    http://books.google.com/books?id=8RMSPt0kC_kC

  6. as crazy s this sounds, this is where we are headed. if the life of an unborn means nothing, it is logical that other life will follow suit: mental impaired, physical impaired, elderly, and on and on.

    it is sad but true.

    did anyone see expelled, no intelligence allowed, the movie?

    kw

  7. I haven’t seen it yet, but probably will when the DVD comes out.

  8. I saw this a few weeks ago. Interesting stuff. I am too busy to provide thoughtful commentary…just lurking for now.

  9. Peter Singer epitomizes evil. He also advocates killing any human that is too sick or crippled or mentally handicapped to be a productive member of society. He has stated that if/when his own mother is too old to be viable, he will recommend ending her life-humanely, of course. Since I haven’t read anything about him lately, this may have already occurred. The man literally turns my stomach. Mengele and his medical experiments had nothing on Singer.

  10. Good points, Jim. The last I heard about the situation with his mom (I think she got Alzheimer’s) was that he had a bit of a change of heart, though that information is a couple years old.

  11. Mark
    I agree that Peter Singer sounds very “whacked”.
    He is also a Professor of Bioethics at Princeton University and a fellow of the Brookings Institute,
    I find that a bit alarming.

  12. Stan – your comment “it’s not just Spain who wants to give monkeys human rights — New Zealand already did it.”

    As a New Zealander from birth I must have missed this. Give me some information – when did this happen? Or is it just another rumour?

  13. Monkeys don’t get the concept of religion, so we can do anything we want with them? Where is peta when you need them?

  14. Denish D’Souza is all over Singer. I’ve learned about Singer from D’Souza. Singer says its Ok to kill babies up to 4 weeks after birth.

    As it just happens, I just saw a magazine (full page) ad for Peta.org by Sir Paul McCartney – I’ve lost respect for Paul… His whole Peta thing is a bit annoying. He wouldn’t be a vegetarian if it weren’t for George.

    Ditto with Timothy. Singer is sick.

  15. My firstborn was a 24 week gestation micropreemie [1 lb 11.5 oz]. It was a horrible ordeal to say the least. We nearly lost him several times. The trauma and horror of the situation was only made worse by the fact that we had fertility treatments to conceive this blessed child. Oh, and one other thing: The doctors and nurses kept reminding us that we didn’t have to endure this pain, that while he was in the NICU we could technically just turn off the machines at any time without legal consequence, that we could end our pain [and presumably his], et cetera ad nauseam. It was just sick. Here is USAmerica.

    btw, he’s fine and, yes, he has special needs, but his quality of life is wondeful.Why? Because he is loved by parents who know that he was sent here as a gift from God and that he has worth and purpose.

    Abortion rights has ever been about selfishness.

    As for apes and dogs… if they really think animal intelligence is comparable to that displayed by homo sapiens, wow. They’re friggin idiots. but darwinists don’t prove their case by granting animals human rights; they only beg the question [while WE question their sanity!]

    –Sirirus Knott

  16. Sirius – praise God that your child lived! How gruesome that the medical professionals’ instinct was to kill him. What a false compassion.

    Edgar – I’ve always been a big Beatles fan, so I’m used to ignoring their political and religious views. “Shut up and sing” definitely applies to them.

    “Where is peta when you need them?”

    Excellent point, Kataztrophy! I’ve always been amazed that the PETA-types I’ve known have been pro-abortion.

  17. [...] found this post of particular interest: But can you abort apes? Since I did a post on this subject myself, I was very interested in what Neil had to say: So, [...]

  18. It must exhaust some people to be pro abortion and against the death penalty, or vice versa.

    Mental gymnastics take so much more flexibility (stupidity) than real exercise.

  19. You know I just thought of something. Perhaps they see the Planet of the Ape writing on the wall and they want to go ahead and ingratiate themselves- in advance- to our future ape overlords? Just a theory.

  20. totaltransformation,

    I think the Marky Mark Wahlberg version pretty much killed that hypothesis. But you are on the right track. The concept of evolution is popularized often through the media, particularly in film. And if you add that to the fact that schools don’t teach critical thinking so much as groupthink and that people seem less prone to read and more likely to engage in more passive media AND that people [sheeple?] seem to simply accept what they’re told by their favorite bias… er, news – I meant news – outlets [itching ears and all that], BUT don’t critically filter worldviews and messages promoted by movies they view for entertainment [and I realize this is a hideous train wreck of a run-on sentence, but St.Paul is my mentor!]NOR even usually critically select what movies they watch based so long as it seems potentially entertaining diversion…well! Your theory certainly seems to have merit; not when we consider one particular movie’seffect, but [ala Medved] a cumulative effect [you know,the basis of television commercials].

    Anyway, way more than ’nuff said.

    ;]

    –Sirius Knott

  21. Sirirus – Thanks for sharing your son’s story. God bless you.

  22. Ken, does this help?

  23. Guess not. Let me try again:

    http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s18855.htm

    http://www.panix.com/~squigle/dcp/animalrts.html

    http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=919620

    Neil said: Sorry for the delay in posting – WordPress filters posts with more than two links.

  24. No problem, Neil. The first time I posted it the links didn’t make it through. The second time they made it. I wasn’t concerned abou the delay; I wanted to make sure Ken got his answer.

  25. Maybe they should ask the chimps what they think of aborting their unborn…

Leave a Reply