Run, don’t walk, from the Presbyterian Church USA

Another denomination goes apostate, mocking the word of God and loving the world.  Via Stand to Reason Blog: What the Bible Teaches about Homosexuality:

The Presbyterian Church (PCUSA) has voted to ordain practicing homosexuals.Before the amendment, the constitution required clergy to live “in fidelity within the covenant of marriage between a man and a woman, or chastity in singleness.” The amendment instead requires ministers to “submit joyfully to the Lordship of Jesus Christ in all aspects of life.”This is sad news indeed. Somehow the PCUSA has decided that homosexual conduct is consistent with submission “to the Lordship of Jesus Christ in all aspects of life.” Even though the Bible unambiguously prohibits homosexual behavior, the PCUSA is now claiming to submit to Christ’s Lordship while setting aside Christ’s teaching as revealed in scripture (Rom 1:26–27; 1 Cor 6:9; 1 Tim 1:10). This shows that the real issue here is biblical authority—something thatwas set aside a long time ago in many churches of the PCUSA.

Some friendly reminders:

  • 100% of the verses addressing homosexual behavior denounce it as sin in the clearest and strongest possible terms.
  • 100% of the verses referring to God’s ideal for marriage involve one man and one woman.
  • 100% of the verses referencing parenting involve moms and dads with unique roles (or at least a set of male and female parents guiding the children).
  • 0% of 31,173 Bible verses refer to homosexual behavior in a positive or even benign way or even hint at the acceptability of homosexual unions.

20 thoughts on “Run, don’t walk, from the Presbyterian Church USA

  1. As a current member of a PCUSA church, I am saddened at this decision. There are a couple of things to consider though. 1. The number of congregations that have already left over this was bound to make this inevitable at some point. 2. The ensuing departure (I hope) of those who stayed to fight the good fight, will just help send the PCUSA into irrelevance that much quicker. 3. The fact that PCUSA polity allows retired and unaffiliated pastors a vote in this kind of thing also makes this kind of decision more likely.

    The PCUSA has been hemorrhaging members for quite some time and this is certainly not going to help.

    Unfortunately, we still have major biblical authority and Christology issues that are unresolved. Not to mention at least one atheist pastor.

    But at least we’re inclusive.

    • Glenn, which is the conservative Presbyterian Church that Jay Adams and half of the NANC people belong to? I continue to think of Presbies as being like Reformed Baptists who practice pedo-baptism, LOL! I am pretty sure you once said they are two distinct Presbyterian Churches.

  2. Because despite the decline of the PCUSA as a denomination, there are still a number of good healthy Orthodox congregations who are doing some great ministry. There are also quite a few folks who don’t/didn’t feel called to cut and run. Personally, I’m not inclined to give up without a fight. God calls different people to different things. I’m quite sure that there will be some folks who feel called to stay and be a faithful biblical witness in the PCUSA. I for one won’t fault them, even if I don’t have the same calling.

    • I know whereof you speak, Craig. Though still technically a member of a UCC congregation, the missus and I have found a new home and will likely be leaving for good. Until then, I continue to speak out against such nonsense as the opportunities to do so present themselves (I try not to be a boor).

  3. As for me I’m sick of the fight. I’m happy with my church and my wife is on staff so we’re not leaving the church. But we’re pushing the leadership to get out, and I’ll probably resign my membership as a small form of protest. Honestly the gay thing is such a small part of the problem that it gets old focusing on it. BTW the UMC is probably next on the list so hold on Neil.

    • Oh, I’m well aware, thanks! The UMC has huge issues and I renew my membership on a weekly basis. It really gets hard. I never would have joined if I knew then what I know now. I think we’ve held the ground fairly well on the “gay marriage” thing, but that would be the last straw for sure (if I don’t leave anyway before that). For now our pastors are orthodox and I view it as a mission field.

  4. Actually the ability to ordain gays is a by product of the actual langauge of the change. The previous standard was chastity in singleness and faithfulness in marriage. I know that is quite contrversial. Now it would be possible to ordain anyone regardless of their how they express their sexuality. To quote a newspaper article on the subject, “The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) has struck down a requirement that unmarried clergy remain celibate,…”. It has also struck down the requirement that married couples remain faithful.

    I like your concept of seeing this as a mission opportunity, I”m past that, the folks on the other side are just too entrenched to see much progress.

    The bigger question is, are denominations valuable it this point in the life of the church? As for our church, I would say not. We’re big enough, and out of step enough with the denomination that there is really no benefit to stay. Unfortunately, the PCUSA has (for the most part) chosen to deal with churches who wish to affiliate with other reformed denominations (the only way out the current polity allows) with some combination of vindictiveness and gracelessness. Ultimately those on the left will end up with a hollow shell of a denomination that is not vaible in any real sense of the word, at which time they’ll set their sights on some other intolerant group and we’ll get to play this game again.

    It might be interesting to do a post on what the future of denominationalism looks like.

    • Good points. Re. The mission opportunity — that is for the general agnostics, not the confirmed theological libs. I agree that they are firmly entrenched in their false views. Probably easier to convert a Mormon. But I leave it all to God.

      Sent from my iPhone

  5. My big problem with staying in any church which continues to affiliate with the apostate denomination is that it gives them credibility, and it leads other to think you are sanctioning them.

    I could no way be a part of any church, no matter who good they are, as long as they continued to affiliate with the denomination.

    • I totally agree. This was exactly my thinking when I insisted our family leave the local UCC church about 6 years ago. The pastor wasn’t a heretic by any means, but it was a matter of principle.

    • I see two problems with this.

      First, you could make the same argument about any denomination to some degree or another. So it would seem difficult to impossible to affiliate with any group as there is bound to be someone somewhere who is off the reservation.

      Second, you seem to be discounting, in a fairly cavalier manner, the large number of committed believers who feel called by God to stay and continue to be a biblical witness.

      Personally I’ve wanted to see a split for years, but I’d never question the calling of those who feel the need to stay. I also don’t know how much respect I have for anyone who’s first response is to cut and run rather than fight the battle.

      • If people feel called to be a biblical witness, I don’t see how they can do that in a denomination which as a denomination has gone apostate. And the argument cannot be made about every denomination because only a few have gone apostate to that degree as a denomination wholly rather than just individual assemblies.

        You can stand as a witness and fight the battle in an individual assembly, as we have done on a few occasions in attempts to change the situation. But you cannot do that for a denomination unless the whole assembly cuts themselves off from that denomination, the way many Episcopal churches are doing.

        So back to my original statement – leave the denomination or you are giving it tacit approval.

      • If people feel called (and some do) to try to bring change to a denomination that is going off the tracks, they can’t do that from outside. One of the reasons why the vote went the way it did is the simple fact that more conservative churches have left the denomination. Even with that a number of healthy, biblicaly sound congregations are wrestling with the decision to stay and continue to work for change or to move on. Speaking for the two congregations I have been a part of the process was long, prayerful and discerning, not knee jerk.

        Personally I agree that it is past time to be gone and that it is a shame that the pro-gay folks won’t be more gracious in allowing congregations to follow God’s call. But I can’t see how it is in any way appropriate to criticize anyone for heeding God’s leading in whether to stay or go.

        As I said earlier, I’m much more interested in the bigger picture. Are denominations really valuable and viable in our present time. Because ultimately once these folks suck the life (read $$$$) out of the empty carcass of the PCUSA, they will simply move on to whatever healthier denomination they can find and we’ll be going down the same road in another 5-10 years.

  6. Pingback: The Actions of the PCUSA on Ordaining Homosexuals Should Not Surprise Us « Timothy Matters

  7. Pingback: Northminster Presbyterian in Peoria holds to Scripture « Rancho Miller

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