The “Christian” Left believes Jesus is God! Except when they don’t! Which is all the time!

Please see the Exposing the The “Christian” Left for more like this!

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The self-parody of the “Christian” Left continues.  I wrote about them last week in The self-parody of the “Christian” Left (are you picking up on the theme?).  Then, to defend themselves, they posted this on their Facebook page, insisting that they accepted the divinity of Jesus.

Some of our fundie critics like to accuse us of denying the divinity of Christ. We can’t figure out if they’re purposely lying or just misled. We do no such thing. No one understands the Trinity. No one. We do not deny the divinity of Christ. In the past we’ve posted articles that attempt to analyze which aspects of Jesus were true man and which aspects were true God. Apparently the fundies freaked out about that. That’s generally what happens when they are forced to think outside their template.

Now how could we have possibly drawn the conclusion that they don’t think Jesus is God.  Maybe — just maybe! — it is because one of their leaders, Mark Sandlin, wrote this: Jesus Is Not My God.

I am a believer. Mostly.

I believe that there is probably a god — something bigger than us. I have a very hard time believing that there’s not something larger than humanity.

I mean, seriously? We are the best the universe has to offer? At least, as far as we know? That seems a bit egotistical to me, not to mention a bit unfortunate for the Universe. Ultimately, I don’t buy it.

I also believe there might not be a god — or, at the very least, I frequently feel the absence of God.

Even King David, felt the absence of God. It’s all over the Psalms. I really don’t feel that bad about doubting. I feel like it’s normal.

That’s why I think of myself as an agnostic Christian. I believe there is a God. I also accept that there might not be.

“I believe; help me in my disbelief.”

When I worship, I worship that God who is all-at-once bigger than me and might not be at all.

It’s the same god I believe Jesus was trying to teach us about.

. . .

For me, Jesus not being God is a good thing – a very good thing.

 

He also has a post called, “No Trinity for me.”  So, yeah, I think it is fair to say they deny the divinity of Jesus.  I was not lying or misled.  I was quoting them directly.  I’m sure I’ll get an apology message shortly . . .

Same goes for their denial that Jesus is the only way to salvation.  Their other leader, false teacher Chuck “Jesus is not the only way but He sure is a bigot” Currie, preaches entire sermons on why Jesus is not the only way to salvation.

There is a reason they don’t let Christians post on their page.  It is too easy to expose them, just by quoting the titles of their posts!

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Bonus: The comment below from uber-commenter Danny got him banned from the “Christian” Left Facebook site.  Note that they didn’t delete a comment last week that said, “Take your Bible verses and shove them up your ass.  Any guesses as to why I put quotes around “Christian” when I refer to the “Christian” Left?

Dear friends. Something is wrong with this world. This site says that the problem is right wingers. But government cannot fix what is wrong. The problem with this world is sin. If there were no sin, this site, nor political parties, nor right or left wing politics, would be needed. The problem is that all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God, and the BIble tells us that the wrath of God is resting on all who do not repent and are born again. I urge all who visit here to read their Bibles. I suggest starting with the book of John. Pray to God. Ask him to have mercy on your soul. Ask him to reveal himself to you as you read his Holy Word. Eternity hangs in the balance dear friends.

 

Follow up from the “Christian” Left

This. Is. Classic. My new buddies at the “Christian” Left  are sad that I’ve stated that they deny the divinity of Christ, and they are aggressively denying that they are deniers.

Some of our fundie critics like to accuse us of denying the divinity of Christ. We can’t figure out if they’re purposely lying or just misled. We do no such thing. No one understands the Trinity. No one. We do not deny the divinity of Christ. In the past we’ve posted articles that attempt to analyze which aspects of Jesus were true man and which aspects were true God. Apparently the fundies freaked out about that. That’s generally what happens when they are forced to think outside their template.

Hmmmm . . . maybe they should pay attention to what Mark Sandlin, one of their leaders, says in his posts:

No Trinity for me, please

Jesus is not my God

Subtle, eh?  You’ll get the same message from false teacher Chuck “Jesus is not the only way but He sure is a bigot” Currie.

Now how could we possibly get the idea that the “Christian” Left denies the divinity of Christ and the Trinity just because they post articles saying, “Jesus is not my God” and “No trinity for me, please” and more?

The “Christian” Left and their Ayn Rand obsession

One of the recurring themes of the visitors from the “Christian” Left Facebook page was their obsession with Ayn Rand.  Their basic guilt-by-association fallacy goes like this:

  • You agree with Ayn Rand
  • Ayn Rand was a super-evil atheist
  • Therefore, you worship money and are anti-Jesus

A sample:

Your theology is based on “The law of the jungle,” “every man for himself,” “survival of the strongest,” “survival of the fittest,” “kill or be killed,” “dog eat dog,” and “eat or be eaten.” It’s as old as the hills and it comes from the pit of Hell. Actually it’s Satanism pure and simple. Maybe you and your buddy Paul Ryan, who is a big fan of Ayn Rand, can start a Satanic Sunday School class together. Anton LaVey, the founder of the Church of Satan, had this to say about Rand: “I give people Ayn Rand with trappings.” Ryan says he’s not a fan of Objectivism, but he loves Rand’s books and he formed his views of economics from reading them. Never mind that her blasphemous books drip with Objectivism on every page. You and your flock have been deluded by Satan himself! 1 Timothy 4:1-2 describes you well, but you are so delusional and blind you can’t see it. Let that one through for your readers.

The counter to that is pretty simple.  Just note how Rand was pro-abortion, like them, so using their logic they are equivalent to her.  You can also point out that they are the ones pushing the Darwinist philosophy, not us.

In their zeal to demonize their ideological foes (i.e., real Christians), they use any fallacious memes they can.  They repeat them a lot in their echo chambers, then go into full freak-out mode when their sound bites are so easily refuted.

To state the obvious, agreeing with someone about one thing doesn’t mean you agree with them on everything.  Did I really have to spell that out?  Apparently so, because that is the premise of their argument.

Rand was eerily accurate about the motives, behavior and results of Leftists.  As the joke goes, Atlas Shrugged was supposed to be a warning, not an instruction manual.

But  just because she diagnosed the problem doesn’t mean she had the right solution.  As an atheist, she misunderstood key parts of human nature.  And of course, her pro-abortion views were anti-Christian.

Unfortunately, the Leftists I explained this to just ran away.  Hopefully it planted a seed with them, but in my experience they’ll use the same bad arguments again if they think no one is looking.

Prove me wrong, “Christian” Left!

Update: Captain Obvious forgot to point out another example: Ask the Leftists what they think of Karl Marx’ philosophies.  Because he was a devout Christian, right?

False teacher does last minute race-baiting before election

Radical pro-abortionist and false teacher Chuck “Jesus is not the only way but He sure is a bigot” Currie of the UCC (Unitarians Counterfeiting Christ) took a break from taking little girls to gay pride parades to do some race-baiting: Remarks at The Oregon League Of Minority Voters Dinner

For all the gifts of our democracy, however, we are a nation not fully free. A broken system allowed the loser of the popular vote to take the presidency in 2001. Our political system has never fully recovered.

That’s not a broken system, it operated as designed.  He’s just a sore loser.  And it is common knowledge that the Leftist media calling the election early for Gore sent countless Republicans home.  The popular vote would have been different otherwise.  Chuck’s first lie was an old one, but designed to drive conflict and destroy peace.

Since then we have given corporations the rights of people and taken away from certain people the right to freely vote.

Another lie.  While the Left steals more and more elections with illegal aliens and other non-citizens voting, asking people to show ID is the most obvious solution ever.  His audience should have been insulted that he thinks they are too stupid to get an ID.

The United States keeps company with nations like Russia in incarcerating large numbers of our fellow citizens, and in America those jailings are disproportionally based on skin color and not on crime.

Yet another lie.  His native tongue!

We are not fully free in Missouri or New York or California or Oregon when unarmed African-Americans are killed by uniformed police officers and we know the process of investigation will be neither fair nor balanced.

The evidence shows that the intoxicated thug who just assaulted someone and stole from a convenience store was not shot as the Left claims.  More lies.  But Chuck & Co. don’t let that get in the way of the narrative.  Their theme is, “Stay on the plantation!”

“Ours is a disconnected reality. We live in an age where an African-American can be elected president of the United States. We live in an age where a Latino can serve on the U.S. Supreme Court. We live in an age where a lesbian woman can serve as the Speaker of the Oregon House of Representatives. All of these people serve based on the content of their character.”

No, that’s the irony.  They were affirmative action elections and appointments, not based on their character or accomplishments.

. . .Neither political party pays enough attention to poverty and economic inequity but the harshest judgment must rest with those who have fought investments in jobs, expansion in health care…and with those who have simply turned a blind eye to the people Jesus called the least of these.

No, the harshest judgment is for pro-abortion extremists like Currie who fight to increase the rate of abortions in the black community even higher than the current rate of 3-to-1 over whites.  Those are the “least of these” from the passage Currie blasphemously abuses.

The crisis of Ferguson is not an isolated incident but indicative of larger social ills that infect the whole body of our nation.

We agree on that.  The Leftists caused these ills by subsidizing fornication and out of wedlock births, which destroyed the black family (and now the white family) and swelled our prisons.

Only when we recognize the common humanity that we all share will we all be free.

How ironic for a radical pro-abortion extremists to appeal to our common humanity!

We cannot treat one another as if we can do without the other. . . .We are not fully free because we do not treat the “other” as necessary, as integral, when there is no one, not a soul, that can be left behind. If we do not love neighbor as ourselves, we have no hope.

Yeah, no one like this or this.

Race-baiting Leftists are a disgrace — even more so when posing as Christians.  Note how Currie wears his collar (seems odd for a UCC “pastor”).  Almost as if he is in a Halloween costume!

But here’s good news: More people leaving the plantation!  I’m encouraged to see more of these coming out all the time.  Currie et al must be scared that blacks are wising up to them.

Should you believe the authors of the Bible or the “Christians” who claim the writers were blasphemous pathological liars?

The way the “evangelical Left” talks, you’d think that the authors of the Bible were just like Tommy Flanagan, John Lovitz’ Pathological Liar character from Saturday Night Live.

The title may seem bold, because the Leftist Christians making those claims don’t use that specific wording.  But their comments on the Bible — whether cursory or in-depth — reveal that is their view of scripture.  They routinely dismiss what the authors wrote as being different than what God really wanted there.

For the writers didn’t just claim once or twice that God spoke to them, but in literally thousands of verses — not to mention passages claiming that the entirety of scripture is from God.  So if it wasn’t truly from God then they weren’t just stretching the truth or telling a few white lies, they were committing non-stop blasphemy throughout the entire Bible.

This raises two questions:

1. Why would the theological Left claim the name of Christ if they think the Bible has literally thousands of blasphemous lies in it?

2. Why would anyone consider people holding those views to be authentic Christians and go to their churches, buy their books, etc.?

The answer to question 1 is that being a Leftist Christian can be highly profitable.  You get to have the approval of the world and sell lots of books without the cost of real discipleship.  Also, 2 Corinthians 11:13–15 explains them:

For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

The answer to question 2 is similar: People get to feel “spiritual” yet completely conform to the world when they follow Leftist false teachers. That’s demonstrated in studies showing that churchgoers who support “same-sex marriage” have nearly identical views as non-churchgoing people.

Here’s an example from false teacher Mark Sandlin, where he desperately tries to rationalize away the clear commands of Leviticus 18:

Whatever the reason, the perspective in these clobber verses were based on an understanding of sex and sexuality that was just as misinformed as their understanding of the earth in relationship to the sun, of fish, of pork and of reasons for stoning children. In our scientific age . . .

But that would mean that Leviticus 1:1 and the rest of the book were pure lies from Moses, or whomever Sandlin claims wrote the book: The Lord called Moses and spoke to him from the tent of meeting, saying, “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them . . . More specifically, see the beginning and end of chapter 18: And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, I am the Lord your God. You shall not . . . I am the Lord your God.”

If you claim a direct quote from God, you are either right or you are wrong.  There is no middle ground.  So who is lying, the original author of Leviticus or Mark Sandlin, who claims to be a pastor while explicitly denying Jesus’ divinity, mocking the Bible, and more?

Here’s another example from false teacher Rachel Held Evans, who supports Peter Enns version of God’s command to take over the Holy Land:

“God never told the Israelites to kill the Canaanites. The Israelites believed that God told them to kill the Canaanites.”

So they think that the writer of Joshua and other books were completely mistaken or liars when claiming to speak for God, but that we should totally trust Evans, Enns et al.  (Evans, notably, tries to rationalize away the child sacrifice element of the story of Abraham and Isaac, even though she is pro-legalized abortion.)

Remember what the Bible says about those who falsely claim to speak for God: Deuteronomy 18:19-20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die. So the Israelites obviously didn’t think it was no big deal to be mistaken about what God really said.

Consider the book of Daniel, the prophecies of which are so amazing that even Leftists concede that accurately describe hundreds of years of history.  But the “Christian” Left says the book was written after the fact.   So their claim is the author of Daniel was a blasphemous liar.

How can these people claim that the human authors were complete idiots and/or liars and then pick and choose the few verses they think they agree with and build “ministries” on those?* I call this Leopard Theology (aka Dalmatian Theology), where people claim that the Bible is only inspired in spots and that they are inspired to spot the spots. Then there is Advanced Leopard Theology, where God is also changing spots and adding and removing spots, and, oddly enough, He is only telling theological Leftists and “Progressives.”  There are no good reasons to trust them.

Oh, and don’t forget to point out how the theological Left has a wildly different view of the Old Testament than Jesus does.  You know, the Jesus they claim to follow.  Even after they’ve rationalized away all the verses about him that they don’t like, they usually claim to like the Sermon on the Mount.  And does Jesus flinch about the OT?  Not at all. In addition to quoting the most controversial parts without apology in the rest of the Gospels (Adam and Eve, Noah, Sodom, Jonah and more), He says this:

Matthew 5:17–18 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Run, don’t walk from churches and “Christian” false teachers who mock the Bible.  Trust the human authors and, more importantly, the divine author.  The original writings of the Bible turned out exactly as the Holy Spirit and the human writers wanted them to, and they have been faithfully transmitted to us.

2 Timothy 3:16–17 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Bad news for Houston Mayor: Even Leftist false teachers say she’s wrong!

I was encouraged to see this by false teacher Chuck “Jesus is not the only way but He sure is a bigot” Currie: Houston, We Have A Religious Freedom Problem

@AnniseParker As a pro-#LGBT rights pastor, I see your actions as violating basic religious freedoms & playing into hands of LGBT opponents.

Stunning #Huston demanding copies of sermons. The political issue is irrelevant. Separation of church & state, folks. http://t.co/yNVWA55QNK

That’s pretty bad for Mayor Parker when an extremist like Currie calls her out, but kudos to him for doing so.  What he doesn’t realize is that Parker et al can’t help themselves.  The blind men — and women — of Sodom will continue to grope for the door, so to speak, regardless of the circumstances.  It is their job description.  If they could get away with it they’d arrest us all right now.

Genesis 19:11 And they struck with blindness the men who were at the entrance of the house, both small and great, so that they wore themselves out groping for the door.

I loved this from Danny in comments section:

A few things:

  1. I’d be really bummed if I were a Houston pastor and she didn’t ask for MY sermon notes.
  2. There IS a problem with politics in the pulpit, it can be found in any leftist church on any Sunday morning as the Democrat talking points are preached religiously.
  3. This is a foretaste of what is sure to come. China has its state approved churches too.
  4. I don’t think the tax exempt status will ever go away. It is way too effective. Why un-muzzle the ox?
  5. Currie probably has enough sense to know that such shenanigans will wake up a sleeping giant. I’m sure he likes having his politics exemption and doesn’t want it messed with. He knows that it’s there for the conservatives and when the conservatives cast it off there will be no reason to extend it to him… cause everybody knows he’s gonna preach the talking points without fear of enforcement regardless.
  6. I can’t wait to see the name of the new Orwellian organization that will back this mayor… something like Texans for the Integrity of the Pulpit (TIP) or something like that. Dems will pile on… of course. We know integrity is a great concern of theirs.
  7. God laughs at their antics:

Ps 2:1-4 (slightly revised by me)
Why is this mayor of Houston devising a vain thing?
The magistrates of the earth take their stand, and the rulers take counsel together against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying, “Let us tear their fetters apart and cast away their cords from us!”

He who sits in the heavens laughs…

Thou Shalt Not Murder

Cross posted at Stubborn Things

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Corollary: Thou shalt not redefine murder in a pathetic attempt to pretend it isn’t murder.

Having done prison ministry for the last 8 years, I’ve met more murderers than the average person – including one who, post-redemption by Jesus, could honestly claim that he was “as friendly as a basketful of puppies.”  But that hasn’t made me go soft on crime.  I admit that I enjoy reminding anti-capital punishment folks that not only is capital punishment – properly applied – a biblical alternative, it was actually God’s idea (see Genesis 9 and Romans 13, among others).  And no, Jesus didn’t overturn it, but that’s a separate topic.

You might think that people would intuitively consider any kind of murder to be the most serious sin against God and neighbor.  Murder takes the life of an innocent human being, it kills an image-bearer of God, it usurps God’s sovereignty over life and death and it is a culmination of a host of other sins: lust, greed, covetousness, hate, anger, pride, etc.   How could we explain that away?  Yet people have been rationalizing it since Genesis 4.

Not only do people create gods in their own images, they create words and phrases in their own images, such as “same-sex marriage” (pure oxymoron) and “reproductive rights/health/etc.” (deadly and misleading euphemisms, because abortion kills a human being who has already been reproduced).  Even highly intelligent people like the authors of Freakonomics insist that murder rates have gone done over the centuries, conveniently ignoring that abortion is murder.  People are Romans 1 poster children, pretending to be anti-murder while suppressing the truth in unrighteousness.

I’ve even seen Christian pacifists support abortion.  One such activist was quote-mining some church fathers to develop a twisted appeal to pure pacifism but he ignored the clear accompanying admonitions against abortion.  What could be more violent than literally ripping off someone’s limbs and crushing her skull?   Yet with no hint of hypocrisy the pacifist opposed any abortion restrictions.

Then there are the Christian grandparents who pay for their grandchildren to be killed with deadly equivocations about how it is better to “ruin” one life than three – ignoring how the word is used just a little differently regarding the death of the preborn child than it would have been if he had been allowed to live.

The disabled are valued so little that it is now broadly considered a moral good to kill them in the womb and a moral evil to allow them to live.

It flows downhill from there.  When half of society considers it a moral good to be allowed to kill your child, why should we be surprised at anything else they come up with?

Part of the problem is worshiping government over God.  Even the writers of the The Simpsons understood this to a degree when they had Reverend Lovejoy say, “Once something has been approved by the government, it’s no longer immoral.”  They rationalize murder as being best for the rest of society (see abortion, or the Holocaust or the tens of millions killed by their Communist governments in the 20th century).  If you think the Leftists aren’t capable of trying to wipe out believers then you haven’t read The Gulag Archipelago.

The best solution is the authentic Gospel and making disciples.  That will transform hearts, minds and societies more than anything else.  It will drive out bad thinking and false religions.  But it starts with discipline – church discipline – which means getting rid of the wolves in sheep’s clothing running most major denominations.  The fault is actually with the Bible-believing Christians who let the wolves come in and take over.  They acted like they were being nice to allow alternate (read: apostate) viewpoints in the church, but they were really just being nice to themselves in the interest of avoiding controversy.  Sharing the truth of Jesus is not only the best way to make disciples but to transform societies for the better.  That will reduce murder and other sins more than anything else.  Absent a right view of the cross and the resurrection people will continue to do what is right in their own eyes.

And the Gospel is there for the salvation of those who have committed murder, including the hundreds of millions involved in the abortion process in some form.  I’ve seen God redeem murderers countless times in pregnancy center ministry and in prison ministry.  Jesus came with a perfect balance of grace and truth.  We have the truth on the seriousness of murder, the reality of murder, how to reduce murders and how to offer grace to those who have committed murder – and every other sin.